The hearth of 19nitten	April 9, 2008
....A big part of the "heart" of 19N (it seems to me) is that it is NOT professional/hard-core. If I want to see wild bareback fucking (I don't) there are places for that. If I was interested in seeing someone drive a beer keg up his ass (another I don't) I'd go somewhere else. But at 19N it's different and that makes it special. For example there are certain of the models I'd like to see in a duo. To see wild fucking? No. I can get that thousands of places can't I? It's mechanical and much the same, like the cycling flywheels and pistons on the Potemkin. (For you cinema followers.) A 19N duo has a different ethos. It's very nice when models seem relaxed together, show some affection, appear happy, and treat one another as more than meat to fuck or a face to cum on. A little human bumbling and some laughter about it sure as heck do not bother me. Amateur is what it means; imperfectly human. I'm glad of every 19N model for being willing to open a bit of his life and body for us. That is SUCH a gift. I'll grow tearful if I don't stop, so I will. icanoe upon a humble seat...
From: icanoe

Copied from the message board	January 2, 2008
Just wanted to say to you you all..Thanks for being a part of one the most amazing experiences in GAYDOM. 19Nitten, Pirrer, RT.. Who would ever have thought..ten years as the PREMIER site for our kind. Special Thanks to Roy and Gary for ..having the Dream, and working so very hard to make it happen. So many people to mention..so many that I would miss, if I started to mention names. Suffice to say, this is a house, built by those who CARE. Members who are here for..YEARS!..instead of a subscription one time and move on. Members who Leave..and come back. What is this ..Magic we all love and appreciate here? A lot of it is just the fact..that..this House was BUILT by the membership here. It exists to serve, and to be open to all. Languages other than English, are spoken here. People are not just ..a face and a Credit Card..they are someone special. I feel so very honored to be a Member of such a place. We have perhaps the Best of all there is, in our daily Chats, and Incredible Beauty of these wonderful models, who interact with us in Open and Free Forums. Caring, Sharing, and being..with others who are the same as you are, and have the appreciation, for beauty..are the norm here. Guys who reach out a hand to help a friend in need. Those who seek advice are helped here. There is, just simply put..No experience..like the Nitten Experience. To you all I say heartfelt Thanks and appreciation. Respect, and Love to all. Merry Christmas..and a very pleasant Happy New Year. Keep the Flame alive. Q
From: Q

Copied from members chat.....	December 29, 2007
jeff: shows here are usually good jeff: much better then most cam sites i have seen
From: Roy

Dear Bolik	September 28, 2007
Dear Bolik, You have no idea how glad I am to see you again. Your Fan Club is alive and well at 19nitten. When I first saw you in April of 2004, I loved you at first sight. Then we got the best of all Christmas Gifts, with your second set of Photos. I was in Bolik Heaven. I have repeatedly come back to your Photos Sets and Videos to watch them again and again, especially your Bolik & Jitrik video, PLUS your shows with Conner, Jakov, Jitrik, Jorik, Matveei, Odin, Radim, Ralf, & Valentin, as well as many solo shows of you. If you and Colin had gotten together, you guys would have Rocked-The-World. Now that you are back again, I am in Bolik Heaven again. You are so very lovable. I wish I knew how your life has been since we last heard from you. I hope all has been relatively OK, and I hope that you have had some really special events in your life. Are you in University, in a career or trade. Your great beauty has matured—you are as HOT and SEXY as always—your cuteness transforming into handsomeness. Can anyone have as huge a smile as you do, so welcoming, open, and inviting? You are perfect in so many ways; I don't know if I could keep my hands off of that perfect scrumptious (delicious, delightful, and excellent) butt of yours; and you have a beautifully shaped and sized Cock, just perfect for you. I also love your deep brown eyes, smooth body, and in your new Photo Set, your trimmed pubic hair. I have been trying to figure out what it is about you, which draws me so very strongly to you, and I cannot put it into words. There is something very special about you, deeper than mere physical beauty, which calls to me. I believe it to be a beauty of spirit, of soul, which is reflected in your face and carriage. I just know that you make a great companion and friend, someone who cares about others. Are you like the ancient Greek Sirens, seducing passing sailors with your enticing beauty and charms? I sure hope you will do a Video or show for us. I'm willing to BEG... I have been in great physical pain for many years now. You have helped me endure and survive, just by sharing your great beauty and loving nature, with me. I was just going through your shows again, to help me write this letter to you, and now, poor me, I feel like I am about to EXPLODE, so I better go now... Great to have you back. With Love, Matthew
From: Matthew

Special tribute album	January 18, 2007
Dear Les, Thanks for beginning this "thank-you" thread in response to these SO-remarkable photos. I haven't much to add to the things that you all have said, except to say that when I saw them first, I felt a surge of sheer BLISS. The memory of a thousand great conversations, a thousand laughs, a thousand new revelations of friendship and beauty is RIGHT THERE against the blue sky. When I first got my new computer back, since all my old files were in limbo, I spent some time going back to the sites I frequented in the time B.N. ( Before Nitten ) so that I could retrieve some photos that were important to me. I discovered that, in all those places, not only are the models gone ( long-gone ) :even the chatters who used to frequent them are, by and large, gone. We are so lucky here that, while, many models have come and gone ( and new beauties are always bursting onto the scene - or the wall ) we have guys like TIMA and STASIC and JORDAN and VOVA who keep the connection going. So that, while there are always new discoveries, there is always a friendly presence in the studio. Roy and Druck must be doing something right, to make 19 and Pirrer and RU that kind of place for the models we love. And, of course, we are lucky to have each other. . . such a fascinating, funny, thoughtful and caring group ( which keeps growing and growing ), who keep returning to 19nitten, Pirrer, and RU ~ it's the closest thing to a genuine social group that I have seen, in cyberspace. I've certainly never seen another site dedicated to entertainment, where charitable and compassionate projects have blossomed, of their own accord. These pictures are a potent reminder of all that, and of the fun and great times we share. That's why they make me feel, simply, joy. "Verdi"
From: Verdi

Night shifts every night	August 23, 2006
We have added Thursdays as well, so now there will be night shifts every night as before.
From: Roy

Extra night shifts in Pirrer studio!	August 20, 2006
Now that summer is coming to an end, we will be adding more night shifts on Pirrer again: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 and all subsequent Tuesdays. Monday, 28 August 2006 and all subsequent Mondays. We hope you will enjoy the extra hours!
From: 19nitten

Verdi's Dad, on Free Speech	February 11, 2006
Jerems, a postcript: ( I have doubtless told this story before - I know that some of my friends know it, anyway ~ but, "Here I go again ): When I was in the sixth grade, I had a fundamentalist Christian teacher, whom I admired very much. He was very pleased with all that I did, and, being a child, I enjoyed his admiration. ( I was a ham, even then ) He once gave us a passionate speech about the corruption that is rife in life, and in literature. ( An insight I can't entirely deny, though I have a slightly different view of things, now. . . . ) He urged upon us that school libraries and curricula ought to be rigorously censored, in the interest of virtue. ( He was a keenly intelligent man - I have no doubt that his curriculum would have been edifying, as well as wholesome: lots of Milton, and Beethoven, was what he had in mind. . . . ) He solicited essays from all of us, and I submitted the one which pleased him the most, and which won the prize ~ arguing for his scheme of benign and cultured censorship. Having received an 'A-plus', and much approbation, I proudly took this essay home, to show it off to my Dear Old Dad. . . . DOD ( no libertine, I can assure you, a quite conservative man - with a small 'c', but rather a 'liberal' Christian ) didn't evince any outward signs of alarm. He just sipped his coffee and said, "Verdi, I'm glad you got such a good mark: your essay is well-written, and you deserve it. But - let's go to your room, now." And so we did - and he began quietly taking BOOKS off my shelves, and placing them gently on the floor. Making the occasional, soft, comment. "Mark Twain: racist. Charles Dickens: a bit of a socialist. Winston Churchill: an impossible jingo. Volume 'S' of the "World Book Encyclopaedia" ~ that has articles about sex in it, and I don't know if I can really trust you, with those. . . . " When he was done ( and about half the books in the room were on the floor ) he said, "Verdi, these are all the books I would have to take away from you: if I really believed the essay you just showed me. But, I think I trust you more than that - so let's put them all back on the shelf, together." Jerems, I got the point. Your friend, "Verdi"
From: Verdi

On Mocking Religion	February 11, 2006
Hey, Jerems, I thought you would appreciate this - and so I am threading the needle, once again, just for you. I don't know if you have ever read Christopher Hitchens: but I bet you'd enjoy his writing. He is QUITE a study in contradictions: a militant Trotskyite, who later in life came around to support the war in Iraq, on the grounds that - weapons of mass destruction and cold Kissingerian calculations about strategic advantage be damned - it was justified on the grounds of advancing human rights, subsequent to Saddam's genocides amongst the Kurds, the "marsh Iraqis", and et cetera. I'm not quite sure whether the good outweighs the bad, in that connection ( though it MIGHT, one day ): but, gosh, this is a man with the courage of his convictions - however heterodox a melange they might comprise. More to the point, for this present discussion: Hitchens is a militant atheist, who is convinced that religion in all its forms has done far more bad, than good, and who isn't afraid to say so. He wrote a highly critical biography of Mother Theresa, criticizing her for ( notwithstanding her popular image of sanctity ) treating her religious followers like crud; neglecting any concern for good health care and the prevention of disease almost completely, in favour of palliative care ( because she believed that disease, and especially SINFUL sexually-transmitted disease, was the will of God ); and taking big donations from sundry nasty dictators, ignoring their sponsorship of 'death squads', and the like, just to advance her fame and position, within the church. I'm not endorsing these claims - you should take his book out of the library and read it for yourself, and make up your own mind. But I DO think it's interesting that the Vatican took Hitchens' critique seriously enough that they invited him to offer testimony in Mother Theresa's canonization hearings, on the side of the "Advocatus Diaboli". ( I'm hoping, my friend, that you will one day be honoured with a similar invitation. . . LOL ! ) Anyway, much as Hitchens' claims were undoubtedly summarily dismissed by the curia, it says a lot about the integrity of his RESEARCH and writing, that they felt compelled to take him SERIOUSLY. And Hitchens is uncompromising about ALL religion - he feels that it is, universally a malign influence. While I admire his masterful recounting of the facts, I don't always agree with his interpretation of them: but then, I am forced to admire, once again, his courageous advocacy on behalf of simple humanist values against the proselytes of ANY religion. In an article entitled, "The Case for Mocking Religion", he makes a stunning case for the primacy of free speech over confessional sensitivity - as against ALL religions: Muslim, Christian, Jewish, you name it. Here are the most telling excerpts of what he has to say: "Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at ALL. [ This prohibition ]. . .is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent. This current uneasy coexistence is only an interlude, he seems to say. For the moment, all I can do is claim to possess absolute truth and demand absolute immunity from criticism. But in the future, you will do what I say and you will do it on pain of death. . . . "I refuse to be spoken to in that tone of voice, which as it happens I chance to find 'offensive'. . . I , too, have strong convictions and beliefs and value the Enlightenment above any priesthood or any sacred fetish-object. It is revolting to me to breathe the same air as wafts from the exhalations of the madrassahs, or the reeking fumes of the suicide-murderers, OR the sermons of Billy Graham and Joseph Ratzinger. But these same principles of mine also prevent me from wreaking random violence on the nearest church, or kidnapping a Muslim at random . . . . " There is much more, Jerems, and you can read it, at your leisure. From all these blood-soaked controversies, Hitchens extracts the conclusion that "faith belongs to the spoiled and selfish childhood of our species." Looking over the sad, brutal record of many faiths, through history, one could hardly be faulted for agreeing with him. Though I don't agree in his ultimate conclusion about the meaning, or lack of it, that religious faith might entail ~ I DO agree with him, entirely, that freedom of speech AND freedom of thought must be preserved, as our most precious heritage. I ALSO believe that any religion which abandons humanism ( and Christianity has been guilty of this, as much as or more so than Islam, over the course of history ) cannot be a religion worth believing in. If it were necessary for any of us to be cruel or intolerant, simply in order to BELIEVE in something - then I would far rather that ALL of us be atheists, and simply get down to the task of loving one another, and being kind to one another. . . because life is far to short for the wretched charade that cruelty always is. I don't think that this is necessary, or in any way a foregone conclusion - because I know many committed people of many religious faiths who use the insights of those faiths as an inspiration to a greater kindness, and a gentler humanity. But, again, I would rather be proven wrong, and relinquish all claim to any theology whatsoever, than relinquish either freedom of speech, or basic humanity. In any religion, in any intellectual system, PERIOD, kindness trumps any brilliant insight, any 'proof', any revelation, or any deductive triumph. While I don't agree with all of Hitchens' conclusions, insofar as he asserts this humble ( and much-despised truth ) I think that his words are ones to which we should all attend. Very carefully, indeed. Quite astringently, Hitchens observes that any Western observer who imagines that the excesses of mobs in reaction to a few pathetic cartoons, who believes that "the first lynch mob on the scene" is actually the genuine voice of all the people, does the greatest disservice to Islam. And in like cases, to Christianity, or any other religion. None of this has to do with diplomacy, or conciliation. In a desperately difficult and violent world, those are important considerations, not to be taken lightly. Others have made excellent arguments about the need to be civil to others with very different beliefs, arguments to which I largely subscribe. Goodwill only follows, upon demonstrable respect, and care. The balance between freedom and respect is always precarious, and fraught with many kinds of peril. But, at the end of the day, one hopes that freedom will triumph. It has been exceedingly hard won, here in these privileged countries in which we dwell; and it is easily lost. If I have a conviction in which I TRULY believe ~ even up to, and including, the most significant, definitive matters ~ I should WELCOME questions, debate, and even the most ruthless satire. It is only another opportunity, for me to make my case. Religion - any religion - can and should be mocked, if it is to be tested and refined, its falsehoods rejected, and its truths revealed ( if indeed there are any ). There is no exemption from the full play of human conversation: and anyone who wins one has found himself a false refuge. Your friend, "Verdi"
From: Verdi

Quality of 19-N: thanks !	July 9, 2005
Hi Roy, Gary and Druck, May I just tell you how impressed and grateful I am by the increasing quality of your site... You always had the cutest models. Now, you have some of the best photographers as well.. I am amazed by the quality of the camshows from Leonard and Dao studio ("The Villa"). I looked at the last replays of Thomas and Kyril shows: they are just fantastic... The cam op just knows how to play with boys, with their beauty... His way of filming them is sensual and fluid as a caress... The light is perfect... The mood is cool and relaxed, just so natural... The boys, obviously feel comfortable, they are themselves and they give us so much of their beauty... This is really a great work... These shows are teasing, exciting, sensual... The models are just at the peak of their beauty, they are just so cute and perfect... The pics albums are also more and more fascinating, as well as the video... 19-N gives me dreams, poetical visions, sensual desires... I guess I am very much touched by the camshows or the albums where the cam op or the photographer looks at boys the way I look at them, that is when he loves them as most of your members do... Love, admiration, longing, patience, sensual play, respect make such a difference in the recent cam replay files, vids and photo album... Well, my membership will expire in two days I will renew, indeed... I am with you since 4 years, if I am correct... And I feel I found the nest I was looking for Thanks again, dear 19-N management, and all the models and chat masters (Tima, Jordan and Sanchez, always very friendly ) Philip
From: Philip

immutable laws of probability	June 26, 2005
The boys who share themselves here are incomparable examples of humanity. They must share all the positive traits of being human and must also have the same foibles and flaws as the rest of us. Some of them are perfect angels from heaven and some should be vain, mean, dregs of society. How is it possible for Nitten to be so perfectly selective of the best our kind can produce? I have never seen a mean, sullen boy, heard a hurtful comment, an unkind word. No boy has ever disparaged any member, nor have any put down another model. I am in awe of this community. I am honored to be a part of this segment of humanity. While I feel lucky to have found a spot here for myself, I know someone has worked very hard to make this haven for us. Druck, Roy, Gary thank you for your choices in development of this site (except for choosing Microsoft technology). You have assembled a crew of top notch people and attracted a clientele of compassionate, understanding individuals. Being here with you ALL has made my life better. Thank YOU ALL. hn
From: hn

Verdi condemns the Pope	June 19, 2005
WHEREAS: Verdi is an inveterate controversialist, and cares little for the approbation of the Holy See, or any OTHER See, for that matter; and, WHEREAS: Verdi is admittedly a Protestant, one of his more daring forebears having been burnt to a heretical crisp, at the stake, by Queen Mary Tudor ( otherwise known as "Bloody Mary" ) for his intemperate belief that the Holy Bible ought to be translated into ENGLISH; and, WHEREAS: Even since the Second Vatican Council ( and perhaps even before ) the teachings of both Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas have been falsely interpreted, and, furthermore, confusedly conflated, in support of the notion that the sole end of human love is human reproduction; and, WHEREAS: The Church of Rome - which is only marginally apostolic, and no longer, in ANY real sense, Catholic - whilst proclaiming its superior knowledge of human nature, effectively DENIES it, prohibiting all measures which might prevent both unwanted pregnancies AND the spread of disease; and, WHEREAS: The Church of Rome, while protesting strenuously against the practice of abortion, actively ensures the increase of this practice, by its exaltation of human desperation, over thoughtful reflection; and, WHEREAS: The Church of Rome condemns homosexuality as a practice "against nature", and "intrinsically disordered", ignoring the fact that a substantial number of homosexual men and women commit to one another with a fidelity, and live in a life of Christian faith, as genuine as any of their heterosexual counterparts; and, WHEREAS: Joseph Alois, Cardinal Ratzinger, so recently elevated to the Pontificate, has formulated and published these calumnies against good and decent homosexual people, in his capacity as Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ( formerly known as "The Holy Inquisition" ); and, WHEREAS: This same Cardinal Ratzinger, while asserting that mature homosexual men and women who live in commitment to one another are "intrinsically disordered", also issued a letter of instruction to all bishops, ordering them to report all cases of sexual abuse to his office and his office ONLY ( not to any secular authority ), declaring that such cases are "subject to the pontifical secret", until the abused child reaches the age of twenty-eight; and, WHEREAS: In the U.S.A., and other Anglo-Saxon jurisdictions, this instruction has prompted secular authorities to suggest that Pope Benedict XVI is under grave suspicion of the very earthly crime of "obstruction of justice"; and, WHEREAS: Pope Benedict XVI has actively interfered in the democratic politics of a number of sovereign states, urging that Senator John Kerry be denied Holy Communion by his parish, and encouraging the overthrow of all governments which contemplate the legislation of civil gay marriages, notwithstanding their willingness to accede to the right of the Roman Church's right to reject gay people, utterly; THEREFORE: Verdi condemns this vain prelate as an apostate against the Gospel, and urges his fellows - both Roman Catholic AND Protestant - to LAUGH at him, and ignore him utterly, until both he, and the hatred he espouses, perish entirely. At which time, Verdi urges one and all, of good conscience, to pray for the soul of this misguided and spiteful man, that he may be spared the flames of the very Hell he has so presumptuously designated as the eternal home of others, more righteous than he. PAX VOBISCUM, "Verdi" ( Anno Domini, 2005 )
From: Verdi

Dear 19nitten Photographers	November 12, 2004
Dear 19nitten Photographers, I am sorry but I am too new to know your names. I wanted to let you know that I think the photography work you are doing, here at 19nitten, is superior to that which I have been seeing at other sites, and better than many other professional photographers I have experienced. You have been showing models at their very best. The entire gamut from picture composition, model posing, to lighting, is excellent. The models seem relaxed and having fun. My hope is that you will continue your work here at 19nittern for a long time to come. Thank you. Love, Matthew [==== The message above was posted by Matthew ====] Hi, Matthew I couldn't agree more! The photography is wonderful, and the models do a great job of posing. Eagle
From: Matthew and Eagle

Accepting Homosexuality	September 30, 2004
I feel that now is the time to take a completely different look at Homosexuality! With modern science suspecting the causes of same-sex orientation to be genetic, it is time to dispel the myths of choice. The medical professionals that I have spoken to say that it is just a matter of time until the results are published. Over and over I have heard the same statement from Gays. "Why would anyone want to choose to be Gay on purpose?" This statement is followed by other reasons such as: "It is such a lonely life!" or "Who would choose to live outside of society and be so hated?" IT IS NOT A CHOICE When people are born a certain way through no choice of their own -- such as race, or looks, or handicaps -- should they be penalized by society? Is that fair?... I think not. An innocent child of six years of age knows nothing of sex. Nothing about his orientation is based on his knowledge of sex. His puppy love "crushes" are based on the same kinds of little immature feelings that all children feel at that age. They are directed toward the same sex, but the child has no way of understanding the "WHY" of the situation. It is time to rethink this entire issue. People should be aware of their children and their differences. If you think your child might be gay, get him or her into some counseling. It is a very frightening and lonely time for kids, and they need all the help they can get. How would you like to be upside down and backwards? There need to be counselors on school campuses. This is the age that these kids have to come to grips with this situation for the first time. I have watched, with some dismay, the attempts at this sort of counseling being initiated by gay support groups at the High School level. They are immediately misunderstood. Groups spring up right away to protest. These protests are fueled by fear and misunderstanding. Perhaps the people doing the protesting think that these groups are formed to promote promiscuous behavior. This is not the point. Perhaps they think that this is an attempt to recruit straight kids and teach them to be gay. This is ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE! Perhaps they think that this is an attempt to promote gay rights. This is certainly not the purpose! Perhaps they think this is a way to unite Gays so that they can promote militant causes. This is not the reason!... WHAT IS THE POINT? WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO?... These support and counseling groups are actually formed to help kids, who discover that they are gay, to cope with a hostile life. They need someone to talk to. Someone who will understand what they are going through. They need to tell their parents that they are gay. They do not know how to do this. The counselors can help them explain things to their parents. They can help the parents cope with this painful and stress-filled fact. They can help the kids stay in school. They can encourage them to avoid irresponsible behavior. A gay child is so alone in the world that they need help in just getting through every day in a normal manner. They already have problems, believe me. The other guys in school have already noticed that they are different. They are reviled and harassed. In my son's case, they threw him against lockers in the hall. They threw food at him during lunch time, along with lots of insulting verbal abuse... For a young man of sixteen, this is pretty hard to handle. My son never said a word to me about this. How could he?... I didn't even know that he was gay. He tried going to the counselors at his school. They weren't too eager to talk to him because they did not even want to acknowledge that they had a gay kid in the school. He spent a lot of time crying. He just went out to the parking lot and sat in his car and cried. When the school authorities discovered him there, he was told to return to class and was given detention. By December he felt so out-of-place that he asked if he could change schools. We agreed, and he enrolled in the local public school. It didn't take long for the people at the new school to figure out that he was gay and it started all over again. He finally did home-study for the rest of the year. He then took an equivalency test, passed, and that was the end of High School. He was lucky, as he had parents who loved him, even though we rejected his homosexuality. Other kids are not as fortunate. Some of them are thrown out of the house. Most are rejected by home and school. All of them have emotional problems. The suicide rate for homosexual male teens is the highest rate of all suicides. The whole world is against them. Where can they go? Perform a mental exercise and just imagine one of your very own children living through this scenario. I don't think any of us would wish this on one of our favorite young people. Can you imagine if every time your child walked out of the house everyone treated him, or her, as if they were unwanted and unwelcome? The looks they receive are full of derision, and the treatment they receive is unkind and demeaning. This is not what anyone would want for their child. It is time for people to accept that these kids deserve to live a life of acceptance in society just like everyone else. They are a part of the human race, just like everyone else. They are different from the "norm," but so are people of different races and creeds different from each other. So are people who are blind, or have other handicaps, different from the "norm." So are people with Down's syndrome, and other defects, different from this "norm." Are they all supposed to be second class citizens? I guess you are really lucky if you are fortunate enough to be born one of the lucky ones who gets to be one of these "normal people." And may God have mercy on you if you are not... People around the world have been giving a lot of lip service to the word PEACE. They also talk about BROTHERLY LOVE, and wouldn't it be great if everyone practiced it. Gosh, there wouldn't be any WARS. It's time to practice what we preach!... At least give these people a chance to live their lives without hostility. Gay people do live on the same planet with the rest of us, and before these people are gay adults, they are gay kids. Instead of pretending that they don't exist, let's give them some mainstream guidelines just like we give all of our other children. God created all of us equal in His eyes. We need to live under the same rules and regulations if we are supposed to be chaste before marriage. And isn't that what God teaches, and all parents, and all of society really want to happen?... Unfortunately this is not what really does happen!... That is obvious! All you have to do is look at the history of statistics to see that this doesn't happen the way that we want it to. But we teach our children as if we expect them to behave as we teach them. We don't just say, "Oh well, you are going to do wrong anyway, so why bother?" No! We don't say that to our kids! We teach them with all the sincerity, and hope in our hearts, that they will behave themselves as we want them to, and postpone sex until marriage. We try to enforce this by monitoring their friends, their time, and anything else we can control. Then we hope and pray for the best. We need to give these same guidelines to gay kids. We need to realize and accept the fact that they are going to date and keep company with members of their same sex just like heterosexual kids do with the opposite sex. When they find the right person, they are going to commit to a lasting relationship, just like all the other young people in the world. This is the way it should be. It's what all people of average background and standard behavior do. They should not be abandoned to a moral garbage dump of -- YOU ARE GAY -- so it doesn't matter what "you people" do. You are going to hell. So just be promiscuous anyway and hide under a rock. Because no one wants to know that you are here anyway. If we handled all of our children in the same manner that we treat our gay children, I would hate to see what a sorry mess our world would be. Let's do something realistic about these kids. Let's discover them at an earlier age when we can help them cope with their differences. Let us get counseling for them so that they can embark on living a regular life just like everyone else. Next face the fact that they do not CHOOSE to be Gay, nor can they do anything to change the fact. Then let's help them live their lives in a responsible way just like everyone else. Let's teach ALL of our children that promiscuous behavior results in all manner of unwanted consequences, from unwanted teenage pregnancies, to a variety of venereal diseases including AIDS. The realities of immoral and irresponsible behavior are devastatingly tragic. Also to be taken into consideration are: loss of innocence, loss of self-respect, and a loss of moral values. This is certainly enough reason for any parent to give their child all of the guidance and proper upbringing, that they are humanly capable of. This article is excerpted from "A Mother Looks at the Gay Child" by Jesse Davis.
From: Vicente

Copied from one of our message boards.	September 30, 2004
It has been a while since I have written much, and so I have been saving up for the correct time, which, might be now. Ryan has inspired me again. He has a tendency to do that and it is appreciated. And so I begin...... After my business with the courts, I was able to get away for a time to take care of some issues with my People in Alberta. At this annual gathering we have made a commitment to re-new the energy and proceed forward with the honoring of our ancestors. For those of you unfamiliar with some of the rights of our Spiritual processes, I will tell you this. Our people were of the plains, we did not bury our dead, in the ground but instead, we offered them up to the Sky. Our Older people prefer this method of Burial, as it is in keeping with the tradition. The Burial Places are sacred Grounds. The deceased is placed on the raised platform, wrapped in blankets or in some cases, Buffalo robes, and then around them the family and friends gather, to sing and tell tales. The ceremony I was honored to be a part of, was for several who had passed on in the time since I was last there. We had gathered to honor those who had passed, and we made celebration to assist them on a path of meeting with their ancestors. There were quite a few of the older ones, who had gone, but this was a time to help them and to provide honor and respect. Singing and Drumming are an Integral part of our ceremonies, and so it was with this one. Drumming lasted far into the evening, and we often crawled into our Ti-pi tired and exhausted, but filled with great Spirit, knowing that we had done our part to help help make the bridge for our departed. Our People, are part of the greater Blackfoot Nation, but we the tribe of Bloods, do some things a bit different and this is true of other factions of the Nation. Yes, I did sleep in a Ti-pi, and yes I did sleep on the ground under a pile of Buffalo robes. Very comfortable, and very please and Privileged to be a part of this. My meals were taken as part of group. We had Fresh Elk and Bear, (although I missed out on that..) and fish and so many different Roots and Berries that I cannot even remember the names of them...HuckleBerries,were the most prevalent. We had Camas roots and other tubers, that were freshly dug. We had Fry Bread..we had beans and corn and many items that would be hard to find in your local markets. The ceremonies were good and they brought us together to share stories and tell tales of old and discuss issues of importance to us as a People. I cannot tell you much of the ceremonies,as they are ancient and they are sacred, and important only to my People. We did have a chance to sit ( as we do), in a circle of Friends and Brothers, to discuss the fate of the Nation(ours as well as the Worlds). We have great concers..We have great apprehensions of what is to come. All of these things have been predicted, and have been told to our Leaders and Shaman, and Spiritual Guides. We have no fear of this, as it has been predicted. We do have concern that this is happening before its time. I will write more on these things at another time. I do wish to say that the Cleansing I went through with my People is a wonderful thing. It always refreshes me and clears my mind and Heart for a time, so that I can once again be of the thought that I am a part of all things, and that I am but one piece of the Circle that is life and will continue in death. We feel the Path we walk on is predetermined, and that we must learn to be as ONE with all things of Nature, as the teaching of even the lowliest of creatures and even inanimate objects, have power and when requested of them, that power can be shared. ( Yes, even rocks have voices if you can learn to interpret their language.) I was so very pleased to see that the Spirits of this Common ground, continue to support this House and this Nation as well. My Brothers, I will write more later, but I do wish to commend you for your support of those in need. To hold our your hand to those who need a helping up. To those who have no voice. Continue this and your rewards are great. Open your hearts and you minds to the real issues, and among those, is the desire to be compassionate and understanding. This is the Way of this House as we have created it. This is the way it will survive.I wish you peace and Love. Q
From: Q

Copied from one of our message boards.	September 26, 2004
Hey, Pebble, David, Mike and Ivan have written beautiful messages, and they are right. Human life is precious, and ought to be revered. And, more often than not, one evil is a response to another. The situation in Chechnya is dire. You know, of course, that Stalin deported, massacred, and enslaved Chechen people with almost as much ferocity as he did Ukrainians - a people upon he inflicted over seven million deaths, from 1932-1933. This is often forgotten, now, because Stalin was our ally in the war against Hitler . . . What's also often forgotten is that Stalin was Hitler's ally FIRST. It was he, one of the great monsters of history ( Hitler's peer in every respect ) who coined the phrase: "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is. . . a STATISTIC." So, Chechnya is a vale of tears, an unhappy land where the people have been oppressed wickedly for generations. This doesn't alter, though, the fact that those terrorists who destroyed the lives of so many families in Beslan are criminals of the darkest sort. That they justify their evil in the name of religion ( as has so often happened throughout history ) makes their deeds all the more sickening. I think that there is no doubt that Islamist brutality is the greatest threat now menacing civilization. ( And please don't misunderstand me, I don't mean Islam per se, which has a record as mixed as any religion. Thanks to Islamic scholars, we have much that is good in art and literature and science ~ including the works of Aristotle. . . ) But the Islamist doctrine currently being preached by adherents to the aberrent Wahhabi movement which is so lavishly subsidized by the tottering Saudi royal family, in madrassahs from Montreal to Karachi, is neither more nor less than a cult of DEATH. I think that few Westerners really realize what is being taught about them, in little schoolhouses from the Philippines to Indonesia . . . But here is a sample: The standard eighth-grade Saudi social studies textbook teaches that, "Jews and Christians were cursed by Allah and transformed into apes and pigs." Citing the Surah Al-Maida, Verse 60, the lesson explains that Jews and Christians have sinned by accepting polytheism, and therefore incurred Allah's wrath. "To punish them," it adds, "Allah has turned them into apes and pigs." The standard ninth-grade social studies textbook contains the following questions: 1) Who will be victorious in the Day of Judgement ? 2) With what types of weapons should Muslims arm themselves against the Jews ? 3) Name four factors leading to the victory of the Muslims over their enemies. In a recent sermon in the mosque at Al-Haraam, the greatest mosque in Mecca, Saudi Sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis implored Allah to annihilate all Jews, and prayed that all Arab governments will forsake any efforts toward peace, because the Jewish people are "the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs." Does this sound at all familiar ? Well, if you have ever spent any time reading "Mein Kampf", or better yet, Hitler's table-talk ( Hitler, Adolf. "Hitler's Table Talk." Edited by Norman Cameron, R.H. Stevens, and Hugh Trevor-Roper. New York, Enigma Books, 2000 ), the echoes are chilling. In fact, throughout the Islamist world, it is widely believed, to this day, that, while the attack on the World Trade Centre was a WONDERFUL thing, it was orchestrated entirely by the State of Israel. Did you know that, though Salman Rushdie still lives, thanks to Lady Thatcher's decision to extend him police protection ( a decision upheld by subsequent British governments ) many of his TRANSLATORS are dead ? His Japanese translator had his throat slit in a stairwell . . . Really, I wonder how many Japanese Islamists would have been corrupted by this text ? But, no matter. In cases of such fanaticism, there is no such thing as "reason". Lest you think that we are all just fine and good, as long as we meekly refrain from criticizing Islam ~ think again. As darling Ahmed, from Egypt, who was doing a Ph.D. in chemistry at MY university in the 1990's, on a scholarship paid for partly by MY family's tax dollars, was kind enough to tell me: homosexuals are EVIL, and they should all be stoned to death. He told me, in the sweetest, gentlest tones, about a boy in his high school in Cairo, who got a crush on him. "Oh yes," Ahmed said, "he was very nice, and a nice-looking young man. But OF COURSE he needs to die. NO ONE should live with such an affliction." I daresay that these conversations influenced my thinking on this situation, a little. . . . In fact, Islam has been described ( I think not unfairly ) as the most rigidly and inhumanly anti-homosexual of ALL the world's religions. The Koran is clear, explicit, and detailed in its denunciation of homosexuality, and "Sharia law" strictly prohibits homosexuality in every country where it is applied. Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia, and Malaysia united, on the floor of the United Nations, to oppose the inclusion of gay people in anti-discrimination resolutions. Here is a quote from George Broadhead, Secretary of the Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association in the United Kingdom, which might interest you: He observed, in an interview in 2002, that ALL Muslim countries outlaw homosexuality, and the penalties for those convicted range from flogging, to prison, to execution by a variety of unconventional methods - such as throwing the condemned off a cliff, or pushing a stone wall onto him. Broadhead said, " The record of these countries on human rights in general is bad enough, but when it comes to gay human rights, they are disgusting." It is estimated that, since the Islamic revolution in Iran, over 4,000 people have been executed, for being homosexual. The Islamist point of view is far from universal within Islam, but it is being promoted very aggressively, especially by Iran ( in the Shi'ite confession ) and by Saudi Arabia ( in the Sunni ). The Saudi texts to which I referred, above, are used as basic course material in schools funded by Saudi wealth in the following nations: Canada, Great Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Switzerland, Australia, Belgium, New Zealand, Spain, Austria, Scotland, Italy, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, the Palestinian territories, Jordan, Lebanon, Yemen, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Burundi, Fiji, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Algeria, Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, Senegal, Uganda, Mali, Somalia, Sudan, Brazil, Eritrea, and Djibouti. All Saudi-funded schools. In 2002, Sheikh Majed 'Abd Al-Rahman Al-Firian preached this message in the Suleiman Bin Muqiran mosque in Riyadh: "Muslims must . . . educate their children to 'jihad'. This is the greatest benefit of the situation: educating children to jihad and to hatred of the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels." Now, lately, we see radical Islamist ideology exported everywhere, far and wide, to places all over the world: including Chechnya. The Islamist creed has become a free-floating ideology ( as, to some extent, communism was in previous generations ) - a ready-made incitement to anger and violence WHEREVER and WHENEVER people are poor, in difficulty, unhappy. And WHENEVER religion is allied to radical politics, the results are EXPLOSIVE. We saw it in Beslan. The great theologian Reinhold Niebuhr once said that "religion is the last battleground between man and God." Never were truer words ever spoken. Whenever people are led to believe that GOD HIMSELF sanctions violent redress of their political and economic grievances, you can be SURE that there will be hell to pay. Because people will commit acts of wretchedness and brutality in the name of GOD that they wouldn't DARE attempt on their own. In Chechnya and around the world, Islamist ideologues have set themselves up as the idols and mentors of suffering people who need hope - and they have perverted that hope into hate: so that otherwise good people are inspired to become ruthless killers who think all the pain they cause others in this world is somehow justified by what they are seeking in the next. OF COURSE, Christianity and other religions have been just as prone to such evils in the past: but this is the threat NOW. It IS, in fact, a war - a war which George W. Bush has been pursuing with considerable incompetence - but one in which we all have a stake. Islamist sages want Russian children dead - if it clears the way for new Islamic states and the rule of Sharia law; they want all Jews and Christians dead - because they view them as idolaters who haven't accepted the divine message. And they want every last gay one of us DEAD ~ because they view us as perverts who wilfully thwart God's plan. No freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, no freedom to think, no freedom for women, no modern education, no justice as we know it. THIS is their heaven. Well, it's my HELL. If we want to survive, we will have to struggle with all our might against this evil. Those who, smiling, perpetrate such atrocities as the massacre at Beslan deserve to be wiped from the face of the earth. They worship death - they are Satanists in the true, literal sense of the word. But, as we struggle to survive against their onslaught, we will have to do something even more difficult. We will have to realize that the vast majority of people who are seduced by this evil, are seduced because of poverty, fear, hunger, or ignorance. And we will have struggle JUST as hard to do something about THAT. We will have to work, as never before, to engender dialogue, to encourage development, to bring opportunities and health and hope. And this is the work not just of a generation, but of a CENTURY. There are reasons for hope, though, a few dim glimmers. Just read "The Trouble with Islam: A Wake-up Call for Honesty and Change", by Ms. Irshad Manji, a Canadian journalist who happens to be Islamic, and also a lesbian. She has risked her LIFE to ask the question, "WHY isn't it possible to be Islamic, and embrace the fundamental principles of human dignity and respect which make life worth living ?" She has concluded that it IS possible, and not only possible, but IMPERATIVE. Women such as this can change the world. Recently, I watched a programme on PBS' "Wide Angle" about kids who are recruited to be suicide bombers, by Hamas. And I mean, really, little kids who are 16, 17, 18. Their 20-something handlers are truly ruthless; they have no intention of dying themselves: they seduce little kids with promises of eternal bliss, while they sit back and smoke cigarettes and laugh - and pack up the explosive kits these boys ( and now girls, too ) are going to wear into some little pizza parlour in Haifa, or somewhere. . . to kill a few OTHER teenagers. But there was one boy who gave me a little hope. I think he was only 18, at most, and was apprehended a year or two before. He said, "You know . . . I was so LONELY. All the other boys made so much fun of me; the girls wouldn't date me. But THEY told me, if you do this, you will be a martyr, a HERO. And when I told the other kids at school, suddenly I WAS - I WAS a hero. And I knew that, in heaven, at last there would be pretty girls who loved me. . . "But then, when I got to the park, ready to become a martyr, I saw them, all the little kids ~ playing on the swings, playing on the slides. I started to cry. I started to shake. I thought, Allah never meant this for me, to kill these children. So, I turned myself in." Well, that boy is in prison, now; but, you know, his story really shook me. And I pray for him every day . . . . Because I have never been a great believer in the "human spirit", or whatever you want to call it. I have long believed that the thing which distinguishes human beings from the animals is their unique capacity for CRUELTY. But still, something in me imagines that all MOST of us want - more than power, or revenge, or all those things that so many people seem to crave - is love. That little kid wanted love, he was led astray, and he lost his life not in an explosion but in a terrible accession: to the truth that he HAD been led astray. I know that if there IS a heaven, he'll be there, someday. Because he DARED to be human. So, yes, Pebble, I am angry, too. Wherever callous ideologues are seeking to harm the innocent, we must strike them back, ruthlessly: to warn, to deter, to prevent. Liberals will recoil from these expedients, but they are wrong. But wherever there is poverty and despair and injustice, we must do what we can to bring a better life so that that despair does not fester into hatred - and more than that, because these fellow human beings ( whatever their creed ) deserve our love and care. They suffer, after all, like all of us. Conservatives will recoil from these necessities, but they, too, are wrong. This is the most dangerous time. We must defend ourselves with ferocity; we must pursue hope, for the hopeless, with zeal. If we fail in EITHER respect, there is little hope for US. I take, in this, Churchill's motto as my own: "In war, resolution; in defeat, defiance; in victory, magnanimity; in peace, goodwill. THAT is the burden of civilization. Yours, "Verdi"
From: Verdi

The Dear Boys of FZ	September 8, 2004
Dear Roy, I could have - and undoubtedly SHOULD HAVE - written much more. Really, much more could and SHOULD have been written about the close of this bright era. You really can't know the joy I felt to receive letters in my mailbox from these sweetest icons of Russian beauty. I loved the form and style of their pages ~ the little personal details they shared, the intimate space of friendship they opened up, for us and with us. Vsevolod used to write about Rachmaninov and Nabokov, about the ballet and the theatre, and all the things he loved ( and hated, too ) Knowing him was like a little education in taste; it was like a visit to another country. Vsevolod made me smile, he made me laugh, he made me THINK. And, now, at the last - I think he's a wondrous man. I would wish him so much success, if I could, in person. But to do so would be quite superfluous ~ because I know it will come SO naturally, to him. Stanislav is sheer bliss, in two dimensions - IMAGINE him, in THREE ! He reminds me so much of my cutest friend Jimmy, in high school ( you know, of course, Roy, the whole reason I'm HERE is that I was besieged by Slavic beauty for the WHOLE of my youth ) . . . . In his letters, Stan was - and remains - a reminder that life is really, REALLY, a wondrous thing. And. . . . he was always promising to teach me how to play BASKETBALL ~ OMJ ~ who's going to do that, NOW ??? And, of course, YOUR Stepan. That you care so much for him is a tribute to your taste and discernment; that he remains your friend, as at the beginning, is a testament to your kindness. Stepan wrote me the deepest, sweetest, kindest letters ANYONE could ever imagine. Perhaps others - especially you, who knows Stepan so well - wouldn't find anything remarkable in these. . . . But they meant so much to me: especially at a really terrible time in MY life. I'd never give anything of these letters away, except to confide ( and I think I know Stepan at least THIS well, that he wouldn't begrudge my sharing this little, beautiful, moment ) ~ once he told me how much he likes to sit at home, on rainy days, listening to music, and to the drops spattering the window. Oh, Stepan - how like the rain YOU are: such a soft, gentle, soul, who nourishes others, quietly. . . . Perhaps this is the last time I will be called upon, or have the opportunity to recall HERE ( though it's always in my heart, ALWAYS ) my first Christmas at 19nitten, when - having lost my boyfriend and almost my mind. . . STEPAN wrote me a sweet and tender little Christmas letter. I couldn't believe it then; I still can't; and I still think it was just a miracle. Selfishly, I hope that the story I wrote for Stepan and Stan - which made Stepan laugh a lot - won't be lost forever: it must be in the archives, somewhere. I haven't felt quite so inspired, for quite some time. It's sure, though, Roy, that my love for these three guys - all beautiful, all decent, all good, won't ever be misplaced. Photos may fade - surely, they WILL - but certain memories NEVER do. Roy, even though FeliksZone is a little bit of history, now, if you CAN: please let these three boys know how much they will ALWAYS mean to me. A smile is a gift: a smile accompanied by two or three kind words is a FORTUNE. And they need to know how rich they've made us. Love, "Verdi" "Our romance won't end on a sorrowful note, Though by tomorrow, you're gone, The song is ended, but, as the songwiter wrote, The melody lingers on . . . " ~Ira Gershwin
From: Copied from our message board, written by Verdi

From our message board in the members area.	July 24, 2004
Subject: Nitten versus other places Hi, Eric, Yes, I've had the same experience that you have - participating in, or witnessing, gay chats that are very unpleasant: really little carnivals of venom. It's hard for me to understand why people would enjoy that. Likewise with clubs. You know, I was very shy, and when I started going to this gay club, I used to sit by myself all the time, until one day, this patron came up to me and said: "You always sit by yourself and never say anything. Tell me your life's story." So I did, and he said, "You know . . . that's really BORING." What's up with people like that ? Well, Eric, I think there are two things at work. First, especially in North America, we are living in a really consumer culture: you put your card in the slot, and you get a few dollars. You put a few dollars on the counter, and you get a sandwich. No fuss, no WAITING. But of course, making FRIENDS is ALL ABOUT fuss, and waiting. Because every person is unique. Every person has his own story that he needs to tell - and which he hopes others will appreciate. The kind of togetherness and patience that that requires is just NOT going to happen if a chat is nothing more than a collection of unrelated busy people, who just want to squirt before they get back to work, or go out to the bar. The other problem, both in gay chats ( and especially in clubs ) is the problem of how people deal with their frustrations. ( And I don't mean, exclusively, sexual ones. ) A lot of gay people have had very difficult lives. ( Obviously, EVERYONE has a difficult life, but for many gay people are the usual problems have been magnified. ) Some people are able to deal with those problems by looking inside, finding some courage, and bringing forth some courage and love to actually CHANGE the world - even if it's only their small corner of it. A lot of gay people, though - like people EVERYWHERE - sort of chicken out and follow the path of least resistance. They create for themselves a little ghetto, or demi-monde, where they can feel safe and comfortable . . . without ever questioning themselves, or coming to terms with anything really CRUCIAL. More often than not, in situations like that, people simply RECREATE or MIRROR the hostilities and injustices that they encounter, outside. If people have been cruel to THEM - they relieve the pressure by trying ( for once ) to be the top of the pecking order in a little world that THEY rule . . . so that other people admire them for being on top, and fear their sharp tongues, and THEIR aggression. Obviously, Eric, that's pretty sad. And I think, in 80 or 90 per cent of cases, it happens almost UNCONSCIOUSLY. ( From a Socratic perspective, perhaps that's the saddest thing of all. . . . unhappy people making OTHER people unhappy, without even REALIZING that they're doing it. . . ) But that's what happens in a lot of gay venues - both virtual and "real". And it happens in a lot of STRAIGHT venues, too. The combination of personal unhappiness, an unreflective attitude, and a consumer ethic, are absolutely DEADLY. It makes for interactions about as beautiful as those between people slugging it out for bargains on the floor of a big-box retail store, on boxing day. So - why is 19nitten different ? I think there are a number of reasons. First: it's not a democracy ! LOL ! Though I think there is a real, active dedication to pleasing the members, it IS a monarchy. It is not some faceless corporation - Roy owns it, and does as he sees fit, to ensure that his ideas and his values prevail. I really think that that makes a big difference. If a site is just a corporate concern - all that really matters is the bottom line. Roy, however, chooses his own staff, and has the absolute right to say whether something will or WON'T be done, regardless of profit. So, for example: you will see here that the models are always protected, and always follow safer sex practices. Because Roy cares about the models as well as the customers. That in itself is a deterrent to a lot of members who care less about people, than their own thrills -to be experienced in the next five minutes, and then forgotten. And Roy ALSO has the ability to ensure that members BEHAVE themselves ! Great owners typically are known by the STAFF they choose. So, you see, Roy has chosen Gary - who is sweet and funny and the best customer-service webmaster EVER - but who ABSOLUTELY will NOT put up with any bullshit from people who come to criticize the models, or create dissension amongst the membership. And the chatmasters are all intelligent young guys who are also dedicated to making the site a lot of fun, and who enjoy just CONVERSING with the members. So. . . .unlike a lot of sites, which are driven SOLELY by short-term profit ( tips, and etc. ) Roy has kept the focus on the LONG-TERM success of the site - and has been able to retain respect for the models, and a friendly interaction between members, as the key focus. With the result that 19nitten is less like an all-you-can eat sex buffet ( as most gay sites out there, are ) and more like a pleasant social club, where you come to meet friends and have a chat after work. The second factor might be ascribed to luck - or probably, more accurately, to the combination of Roy's taste in guys, and his operating philosophy: but, at any rate, 19nitten was lucky to acquire, in its early years, a number of really CRUCIAL members whose style and presence has really influenced the character of the site. The fact that people like Q. and swe - who are nice, nice guys, and care about everybody - have been here from the beginning, and are so frequently in chat: gives the whole place a different tenor. That really can't be underestimated. Because, if you have a number of people who are always around, encouraging new members, promoting fun and good humour, and gently discouraging people who have negative things to say. . . . over time, it has a really significant impact. People who get off on being superior, or hurting other people's feelings, are just NOT going to be interested in that kind of chat: so they throw up their hands and go off somewhere ELSE. While the gentler souls - who are often a bit shy ~ take courage and start to speak up, and have fun. The volunteer moderator system has, I think, been a great success in further promoting this ethos. People who really love the site and its members are usually around to make sure that people are enjoying themselves, that they get the help they need, and that the models are being respected. The third and final factor, Eric, that I think has made a big difference. . . . is simply 19nitten's TIME ZONE !!! I know that sounds insane, but you know, sometimes geography is destiny Because 19nitten and Pirrer are in a good time zone for European members, there is a much broader mix of people here than on most North American sites, which broadcast only when most of our European friends are in bed. So there are people here from all over the world, and I think that the broad cultural mix helps to enrich the sight, bring a variety of perspectives, and make it a much more pleasant place to be. So - many factors come into play. I'm sure that some of them Roy imagined specifically, as he set out to create the site: others have just been the product of happy coincidence. At any rate, you are so right - things have worked out very well, and 19nitten is a great place to come and enjoy the most beautiful models: but also some of the most beautiful FRIENDSHIPS. I hope you enjoy it for a long, long, time. "Verdi"
From: Roy

From the message board in the members area	February 5, 2004
My dear Corey. Rarely have I admired such beauty in a younger man, it is more than the nude photographs, it is the way you are so natural while being photographed. You are so amazing, you are amazing in how you look into the camera and how your inner beauty appears when the camera captures you in a brief moment. I find it difficult to describe exactly how I see you, just that I can see that there is more to Corey than what the Photographs could possibly show us. The photographer has done so well to capture the moment in digital memory. When I see you in the video, there is also that spark of "you" in the recording. I find that there is more to you than just the image, it is so difficult for me to explain. I wanted to write you this note to tell you how much I admire you. I know that I can never sit next to you, I could never get to know you. Yet, I sense that I already know something about you, about your kindness and your good nature. You would likely not find a man such as me attractive, and you may even find me a bit old fashioned. You may not find many things in common with me at all, but you may find that I truly admire you. Twenty two years ago, I would love to have known you as you are now. Or, someone just like you. I would love for you to have seen me as I was then, not much different than I am now, only I was so uncertain and so scared to tell anyone how I felt about other men. If you and I could, for only a moment, sit together and we could just get to know each other... it would be a miracle to find you as I see you in your photographs. I certainly hope that my vision is true, and that you are just as I see you in my mind. Beyond the kindness you must have, your sharp wit and intelligence, your care for others and for all beings, your concern for your friends and your love of fine things to be appreciated. I see your heart which is so pure. I hope that your life has been filled with all the good experiences that you could have ever encountered. I would hope that your future is remains this way too. I know that you personally may not read this note that I have written to you, and it is likely that you may not be around the studio often enough to find the translation. All I hope for is that you know how I, and so many more members here admire you and respect you. My best wishes for you in your life, Corey. And please consider blessing us here at 19nitten for as long as you desire. In respect and admiration, Stevie
From: Roy

From our message board in the members area. Written by "Q".	January 3, 2004
A compendium of trivial matters and definitions and other "non-categorized" Stuff: What is a Newbie: One who is new to the site and is new to us in the Chats and Message boards. Mewbies are welcome and encouraged to be a part and all of us are here to assist you in what ever language you wish to use, but the common language is English. You are welcome here. What is a Lurker:...One who Never participates in Chats or the message boards is a Lurker. Lurkers sometimes come out, but more often prefer to hide in the Shadows, and not enjoy the company of others in Chats and this Message area. They too are a part (the Greater Part) of this great site. We are always encouraging Lurkers to join in, but for whatever the reason, some just will not. Lurkers do not speak and they do not write, they are the true "Silent Majority." Some do not have the English Skills or are shy or are non communicative for any number of reasons. In any event..we know you are there, and we appreciate hearing from you when you find your voice. Some of those silent ones are not good in Groups and chats, and that is good for you and for us. An occassional Hello or Hi is nice to see, and to know that you are with us.! What is a Disruptor: One who comes to our Home to disrupt and demand and cajole and whine and snivel and bitch and moan is a disruptor. A person who come in to make fun of others, who has issues or is over "punny" or likes to make snide and sarcastic remarks about the Models, the Staff, the ChatsMasters, the Members, languages, colors or fetishes is a disruptor. Disruptors are encouraged to be a part of the solution not a part of the problem. Often, Disruptors are asked to leave. What is a Theif:..One who Steals pictures from this site and puts them into Newsgroups or on other places with out the Expressed permission of the Owner and Manager of this site is a Theif. One who does this steals from the other members of this site who have paid and who are active participants in all that it offers. Roy and Staff make plenty of FREE pictures available to EVERYONE....so ..if you think you are helping to spread the word in this manner, then you are a theif. (I love to catch theives and to let Roy close their membership and ban them forever!....I HATE theives and you will get caught. I Promise! I am not alone in this effort!) What is expected of the membership here:.Have FUN! Enjoy the beauty! Meet others who like you, for who you are! Participate in the enjoyment of being with others who are just like you, who do not Fight with each other, who do not put you down, who do not belittle you if you like what you see...whether it is a special body part or a certain special turn-on. English is encouraged, just because there are more English speakers than any other language, but if you speak French, or German, or Spanish or What ever...your language is...there is usually someone here to help you and to talk with you. The membership here are Lawyers, Doctors, writers, intellectuals,school-dropouts, politicians, teachers, laborers, employed and un-employed, students...and a thousand other things, but on this site...they are all as ONE...there is no other place that the membership is as caring, as sharing as helpful, as concerned for YOU, as this membership is. We do not care what color, what religeon, what language, what you do! We DO care about the person. We care if you have a question, a concern a problem a need to talk to share to ask a question to be open with us and to receive in return, the knowledge of thousands of people just like you! What are the models like here: Simply put, the BEST! They are just regular 18 to 23 year old young Men who enjoy being with us, who are treated with the utmost of respect, who are students, or laborers or dancers or singers or just nice guys. We like our boys and they in turn like us. They do not come here to "Perform" for us, but are willing to share what they WANT to share with us. No pressure. No demands, no expectations of other than to do what and when they want. We get to know them, their likes and dislikes, their wants and desires and goals..their personal lives as they wish to let us know. They are NOT actors, (tho some are)..they are young Men! they are wonderful and appreciated. They will never be treated as other than what and who they are, with the Greatest of love and appreciation. Always! Be with us. Q
From: Roy

Verdi's response to Q's message below	December 31, 2003
Dear Q., What a magnificent tribute. As all who know you, know, you have invested, and continue to invest, tremendous energy in making this a splendid place for everyone. Of course, that doesn't go unnoticed - it seems to me that any miracle we experience in the real world never comes about purely by divine fiat, but rather by the longing ( and striving ) of many hearts - in concert. I also know from a little teaching I've received from Native Canadian elders, in the course of my work, over the years, that the First Peoples of this continent ( far more than any European culture, that I know of ) value consensus, the common bond that is woven in the "sharing circle". Q., it seems to me that you strive for this wisdom, and this PRACTICE, more sincerely than almost anyone I know. That this is such a good place is due, in no small part, to your efforts, and this is something I appreciate. That you make these efforts is, I think, a commitment which is reflective of the truth that reposes in ALL religions, at their best. That there should be "peace on earth, goodwill toward men", is a message that all of us need to hear, over and over - whatever the form, the style, or the language. And it is a message that you never tire of sharing. Life is too short for us to fail to embrace this message of kindness and brotherhood. Chief Crowfoot said, "What is life ? It is the flash of a firefly in the night. It is the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass, and loses itself in the sunset." Q., your words always remind me of this poetry, and this truth. Because you teach us how precious are these moments we have together - though they are as fleeting as the firefly's spark in the brush, they can be just as bright. If we all join the circle. God bless in this and every season, "Verdi"
From: Roy

From our message board in the members area. Written by "Q".	December 25, 2003
This is the season to share and to revive our spirits of brotherhood. For you newer members, I wish you continued enjoyment from all that is offered to us here. I wish to provide you all with just a short note of what this place is all about, and why we are all here and why we are as ONE. This is above any others, the Very best site of its kind on the Internet today. It is made this way by the visions of the owner, Roy, and his Incredible Staff of talented people, who remain involved and dedicated to bringing us the BEST of all things. Roy is the King and the Queen of this wonderful site(s), and he started with just a few of his private collection of pictures to providing the most successful of places for our kind to gather. Gary the Web Master, perhaps the most creative and dedicated MASTER of any site. He provides us with so many things from Updates on a more frequent basis than anywhere, Help from his knowledge and FUN for all. Druck, the Man with the ability to bring all of this together to make it work and continue to provide the best. He is Big Daddy for all of the Boys in the nest and for the RT site. Druck brought us perfection and is never pleased with just what we have now, when there is so much more to explore. The Chat Masters: Tima, whose incredible talent as a model, and a Role Model for the rest of the boys has proved himself as a talent that is unsurpassed. Without his dedication, and energy, the Nest would perhaps not ever be what it is today. He is a Teacher, a seeker of truth and love. He has a vision and he has the compassion and the biggest heart of anyone we ever met. Andris, the man of many languages and talents, who will most certainly be a success in being King of the World some day..He is Witty, fun, and smart. Andris will be such an incredible success one day, in whatever endeavor he takes on. Dinja, Such a Fun and talented guy. He brings us Joy and Happiness at every time we are privileged to have him with us. His energy and his desire to enjoy are contagious and good. Jordan, the Director. what to say but so many ideas in his head, such creativity to his gifts to us, such Fun for his every time with us. Although Jordan does not speak English as do some of the others, it does not detract from the sheer Joy I get when I see him, or we have him in charge. I am pleased to call Jordan my Brother. Vova is still in learning stage, and he will do extremely well. He has come such a long way to this step to Chat-master. From being a shy guy, who would not even look at the others, nor take off his underwear, to one of the most exciting models on the site. The Models, My GOD!...There are just too very many to mention here, and we are so blessed to have them here. Gorgeous, Talented, Handsome, Fun, enjoyable, so many superlatives to describe that there just is not enough space to list them all. Suffice to say, they are the very TOP of the list. The Photographers are the very finest anywhere, they have the EYE that is so critical in forming the model in the best of circumstances for our enjoyment. Jayson and Katerian Studios have given us so much talent in their models. Kat is wonderful and Jayson is so talented as well, and to visit them in the daily shows from their Studio is an experience that few can resist. Kristjian, the Master, has been so consistent in his fine talent from his studio, and never fails to provide us the best beauty every time. The Membership. this is the Very Finest group of members EVER assembled. Here they do not fight, they do not hate, they do not put down others for their language, for the color of their skin, for their fetishes, for their wants and needs and desires. The membership here is dedicated, to the enjoyment of this place. They are sincere in the desire to make this the FINEST place for us that we can ever hope for. The Membership here is here for Beauty, and for FUN in Chats and in BELONGING to a part of what is the BEST of our life. They have many Talents and many backgrounds and lives, but here, in this house, we gather as ONE! We are all here to assist others, to answer those who have Questions, to give advice and solace when and where we can. We are a Virtual world of the collective thoughts of thousands of years. We are here to make our lives better from that we have experienced from Other places and from Others who would harm us, and put us down for our beliefs. Here, we are ONE. Many of the Members here have been here from the Beginning, of when Roy first started putting some of his work on line. We saw and we stayed. We helped to make this place a place for all. We went Through the Throes of growth and confusion, and at times anger and frustration, but we stayed, and we were asked to help build, and we did. This is still a site of a Work In Progress. We are all here to continue the Vision. Some have tried to come here thinking that THIS House was like the other places where they were treated like something less than despicable. Some came here with the thought of trying to break this House apart, they could not and will not do it. Those who have tried are gone, or they are silent, and are not in sympathy with the fellowship of this place. This is OUR Place, this is where we are ONE. We are united here and we speak with a voice of universal Love and Understanding for our fellow travelers. Here we gather to enjoy the company of Friends, and of all that we have created, together, as ONE. My Friends, I wish you Love. I wish you Peace and Health, and the wisdom to be who you are. Be with us here in a gathering of Power and Fulfillment, such as has never been experienced before by any other site who caters to our kind. We are ONE. Q
From: Roy

FREE access to 19zone.com!	November 17, 2003
Members of 19nitten now have FREE access to 19zone.com. This new site consists of the content from the former FeliksZone, as well as all new material exclusively presented on 19zone. The venerable Tima, cam and chatmaster on Pirrer, has been appointed as 19zone's new webmaster!
From: Gary

Free Access to Feliks Zone!	September 4, 2003
On or about the 15th of September, 19nitten will take over the operations of Felik's Zone. Tima will be the new webmaster. The boys of FZ have decided not to continue working on the site because they are finding it difficult to concentrate on school and their jobs at the same time. Making new photo sets every week and looking for new models simply took too much of their time. I did not want the content of FZ to disappear forever so I have decided to take it over. All of the content will remain as they are. However, there will be no new pictures of existing FZ models. Instead, we will add a section where all new content will be presented, 19nitten-style. This will also enable us to grant the numerous requests we have received for additional photo sets of existing 19nitten models. FZ will still be a pay site with its own membership. However, all members of 19nitten will have FREE access to Felik's Zone. If you are a member of both 19nitten and FZ, we will be happy to give you an extension to your 19nitten account. You must have at least 10 days remaining on your FZ account in order to receive this extension. Please send us an email.
From: Roy

Party in the Pirrer studio	August 8, 2003
Sunday evening, August 10th, there will be a party in the studio. Web cams, streaming live video, live sound and chat for members.
From: Roy

A Visit to the "Nest"	July 5, 2003
I arrived at the city late in the evening. Druck was there, along with Stasic and Artie, to pick me up. According to Druck, they were very eager to meet me. Curious, they were probably wondering what I looked like, the strange man from the West they had been talking to so often on private chat. It was so nice to finally meet them. They were both a little shy, betrayed by their smiling faces and inquisitive eyes. I will never forget Stasic's handshake. He grabbed my hand with both his, and with a beaming smile, he welcomed me to the city. An insignificant detail? Not to me. Small details like such tell me a lot about a person. Stasic IS a nice boy, so is Artie and the rest of the boys you see in the Nest. Yes, The Nest! What a strange place it is. :-) Before I arrived, Druck had arranged a work place for me in his office, but I only used it for a day. For the rest of my stay, I worked from my own apartment. Being used to working alone, I soon realized it was impossible for me to work in Druck's office. That place is certainly not for prudish people. Boys pop in and out almost all the time, to drink coffee or tea, joke, tease, laugh, and hug. In the middle of this organized chaos stands a tall man - Druck. Guys, I suggest you no longer call me "Queen". If I am the Queen, then I am only the "Queen" of a castle in the air. The REAL Queen (literally) is Druck. He is the Queen, the mother hen, the shoulder to cry on, the director, the driver, the bank.... Druck is the man who keeps that sweet, odd, family together. Through Druck's voice, here is a glimpse into a typical afternoon at his office: "....Condoms...Tima, check how many condoms are left....Andris, you are talking all the time, do you have to laugh that loud?....Oh, Andris....what have you done to your hair???? Soooo sexy!!!.....You are so delicious, Andris ....... TIMA! You have not fixed that cable, why did you not fix that cable????? DO NOT SHOUT AT ME! ..... Roy, look at Tima, so muscular and sexy ..... I love you, Tima ..... No, you cannot fuck me, Tima, I am active, I am a top.... .....Roy, the new photographer just told me that the model he is shooting pictures of upstairs cannot get a hard-on.....Hehehe...I can understand him, with only that photographer in the room I would not have been able to get a hard-on either.....Tima, maybe you can go up and show the new model your beautiful body, it might help..... .....Oooohhh, I feel so beautiful today.....Andris, why are you laughing? Do you have to laugh all the time? Don't you think I am beautiful??? .....Oh, PLEEEASE, Artie!!!!.......The ballerina is in the studio and he keeps asking me all these stupid questions! I will shut down my chat........ .....Roy, please do not forget to pay that invoice tomorrow... .....Alex (Druck's assistant), how was the new boy that came in today, can he be used as a model? Was he hairy? Ok, maybe we can use him on RuTwinks then..... .....ARTIE!!! What are you doing here???? Why are you not in the studio?......yes.....yes....yes....now go back to the studio and be beautiful....Look at him, Roy, isn't he cute? I know you like him....Yes, you are so sexy, Artie....Come here, give me a hug.....So, back to the studio, Artie!....AND STOP SENDING ME STUPID QUESTIONS!...... .....ROY! Stasic has not eaten today!!! Why do I also have to be the mother of these boys!!! Roy, you have to take him out and feed him!..... .....Tima, is there garbage in the studio? Remove it! We need to help the cleaning lady.....I HAVE to remember to buy more condoms.... but I will find a new provider. I usually buy 200 condoms, but I do not get a discount! I do not accept that.... .....Stasic, come here! Stasic, my little beautiful boy, you HAVE to eat! Do you hear me?.....And Stasic, remember that we are leaving tomorrow. You will have to drive the car so you must go to bed early tonight. And do not forget your passport, we are going to another region so you will need valid identification papers.... .....Roy, look at this model they just sent pictures of.....Nooooo, he cannot be used as a model! I do not understand why they send test photos like that.....I CANNOT WORK IN HERE!....STASIC! TIMA! ANDRIS! JORDAN! GET OUT OF HERE!.......Roy, sometimes these boys drive me crazy!.... Oh, I am so tired, Roy, let us go out and eat!...STASIC! STASIC WHERE ARE YOU? YOU HAVE TO EAT!!!" Many have told me again and again that I have an excellent staff. They are right. Sometimes I think I am the most irresponsible among them. I think Gary has become used to it now because he does not contact me as often to inform me of serious problems that have occurred. He probably knows my standard answer by now: "Well, we are not running an intensive care unit in a hospital - it is only an adult site...." I noticed that Druck and the boys at the Nest take pride in their jobs, just as Gary does. If a model was late for his shift, Druck would be pacing and ready to declare a state of emergency. If there were technical problems, then people would be running in all directions with ten or more phones being used at the same time. A true "the show MUST go on" attitude pervades the Nest. As you may have seen, Artie drops down at the computer in the studio as often as he can and he bombards everybody online with messages. One evening, I became Artie's target. Jumping like a rabbit between the bed and the computer, Artie flooded me with messages. Then I received a message from that evening's director, Dinja, which shows how seriously these boys take their jobs: "I know you are the boss, but I must tell you that you should not disturb the models when they perform for members". What a great attitude! :-) It was a beautiful and sunny Sunday, three days after I arrived at the Nest. The first sense of Spring is in the air. We decided to leave the city, to visit the countryside, to barbecue, make some pictures and a video. The place Tima chose for us was nice. In fact, too nice. Because less than an hour after we had arrived, more people started to show up. It was obvious that many people living in the city had made the same decision - to get out of the city and enjoy the nice weather. With families barbecuing on all around us, we realized it was impossible to shoot the planned pictures and video. We took a lot of non-nude pictures. Unfortunately, we found out later that something was wrong with the camera. These are the only pictures that were usable: (Pictures only for members) As I mentioned on the message board, we made a trip to the city where Jenya lives. That is the same city where Katarian, Jayson and some of our other models live. We took Druck's car to the border of that region and from there we went by bus. In the car, Stasic told me how it felt to pose for pictures for the first time. He told me that he was extremely nervous because he knew nothing about the adult industry. Even worse, when he showed up for the photo session, he was convinced that the staff was dangerous, and that they would kill him after the session. Knowing this, it's amazing that he posed so beautifully in his first pictures. Yes, it is amazing that he did not simply run away. What a brave young man he is! Walking behind Stasic is a pleasure. No, no, no... no dirty thoughts, now! Yes, he is sexy from all angles, but what I wanted to tell you is that it is also beautiful to see him walk. He has a superb posture and an attractive way of walking. When walking, his arms are close to his body, with his hands usually in his pockets. He takes medium, graceful strides. You sense style and grace when watching him move. Stasic is extremely beautiful and charming. It is no wonder that even a lesbian tried to seduce him in one of the nightclubs we visited. So, guys, it has now been proven. Miracles do happen. Homosexuals can change! At least one lesbian. All of a sudden, other girls were no longer interesting to that lesbian. Her eyes were glued on Stasic. As she moved closer, Stasic started to look away in other directions in a frantic attempt to let her know he was not interested. Only whenever she talked to him did he look at her. I do not know what she said to Stasic, but I do not think she invited him to arm wrestle because she was certainly not butch. She was slim, and had a beautiful face and body. Nonetheless, she failed. Who knows, maybe it was because Stasic was aware that Druck, Stepan, a few others, and I, were smiling and observing what was happening. Or perhaps he IS one of us... ;-) Travelling to Russia was an experience that prompted all kinds of feelings. Some happy, some not so happy. It is always interesting to see new places, BUT it was sad to see the living conditions for many of the people there. The apartment blocks people live in..... many of them would have been condemned here in the West. The houses in the rural areas.... some of them are difficult to describe at all. And what I saw was only from the outside, I am afraid to imagine what they looked like inside. Well, I did see one apartment - the one we rented for shooting pictures. It is embarrassing to tell you this, and I am only doing it so that you may understand what I thought of the apartment's condition. Druck, Stepan and I were in there before the photo session. I refused to sit on the sofa or eat anything in there. I did not even want to drink a glass of juice in that apartment. For the most part, I was standing at the window which I had opened. Druck and Stepan laughed as I am sure they thought I had gone mad. Trying to convince me that I could at least safely drink the glass of juice offered to me, they told me apartments like that are what most families in Russia live in. I do not know what Druck and Stepan were thinking. However, it would not surprise me if it was something like: "What a fucking spoiled, Scandinavian jerk!" Yes, I am a spoiled Westerner. We do need to travel more because by doing so, we will help their economy AND we will understand what good lives we live in our wealthy Western countries. We might then stop complaining as much as we do. Our insignificant problems may also be viewed in a different perspective. On the other hand, Russia is not a poor country - it has enormous resources. So, Putin, I will give you a few more years. If we do not start seeing changes soon, then my love for you will turn to contempt. As I have mentioned, Stepan came to that city to be with us as well. Stasic and Stepan met for the first time and it was obvious that they enjoyed each other's company. One day, Stepan and I bought tickets for a city tour. While sitting in that small bus, waiting for the tour to start, an old woman got on. She was selling postcards. After we had bought some cards from her, she started talking to Stepan. She spoke in Russian, of course, so I did not understand what she said. Later, Stepan told me she was describing how it is to be selling cards on the streets. That old lady was talking for quite some time, and I was sitting there studying her face, as well as Stepan's. Stepan sat there, politely listening - smiling, nodding, and responding with a few words every now and then. It was easy to see on the lady's face that she was very happy someone was willing to listen to her. After all, she was just another street peddler. It struck me: This is amazing! Most boys and girls at Stepan's age would have signalled to her with their eyes, facial expression, or body language, "I am not interested - go away!" Stepan did not. He listened. He even showed that old lady respect and friendliness. For a few minutes, he even made her happy. It is no wonder I love that boy! There is no doubt in my mind that the Nest is important to many of the models. They frequently show up during their spare time, on their own. Stasic does it so often that in jest we call the studio "Stasic's apartment." It was also interesting to see the impact the studio has had on some of the boys. I remember the first time I met Tima. It was two and a half years ago, and he came to apply to become a model. He told me he wasn't sure if he would be able to do action photo sets, because he thought it was strange to touch another boy. Look at him today. It was the same with Stasic, and many others. The Nest had changed them. Now I have been there. I have seen the Nest. In Druck's office, I have met the models, shook their hands, and talked with them. Outside the spotlight of the studio, I have stood next to the directors, read the chat, listened to how the directors inform the models about what members say, request or comment on. To the director's right (on Cam 3), I have taken off the cover of the basket (nicknamed "rprog"), where the models dump their used underwear. And for a few seconds, I pondered on the value of that basket. In the Nest, I was once again able to see that pictures do not tell the whole truth and that most people look older and fatter in them. Camera lenses distort distances. I was very surprised when I saw Druck's office, where our previous studio was. We all noticed it was small, but I had no idea it was that small. Our present studio is much bigger, but even it looks bigger on cam than in reality. Especially on Cam 1. It really magnifies the studio. Ok, not everything is being magnified. I can assure you that Tima's dick is as big as it looks on cam. That dick can choke anyone. I was sitting in Druck's office when the door swung open and in came a completely naked Tima. My jaw dropped as I was still not used to naked people barging in through doors. From what I have read on the chat, message boards and emails, I know many of you would love to visit the Nest - to meet the models there and all the other models we have around. My trip to the Nest has been very educational. While it may not be possible for members to visit the Nest personally, I hope I have given you a small insight into what goes on behind the scenes. For me, it has greatly enriched my understanding of how our staff and models work and think, and to a small extent, how they live. During my next visit, I hope to share with you many more pictures along with my report.
From: Roy

Artie	October 27, 2002
One of Verdi's many well written entries on the message boards. Again - a declaration of love. _______________________________________ Dear Artie, It was so nice to meet you, and talk to you, in the Pirrer chat ! Thank you for being so kind, and talking with ME. . . . it was so much fun ! :-) Artie, after the chat, I was looking back at the 19nitten photosection and all your GREAT pictures: did you know, I gave you the HIGHEST rating the day your FIRST photoset appeared on 19 ??? I don't do that with very many models ~ you are definitely one of my very favourite guys !!!! You are a special guy, Artie, there is no question about it. Because you are adorable and sweet in the way a REAL BOYFRIEND should be. All your shows are wonderful because it's obvious that you aren't pretending for one SECOND: you're just being YOU. And it would be such a THRILL to give you a hug !!!! A BIG ONE !!!! :-) Of course you're very beautiful. . . . with your sweet smile, and deep brown eyes. . . . You are slender and graceful and perfect and who could RESIST kissing you all over ? My FAVOURITE photo of you is #268 -- where you blow US a kiss ! WOW, that's nice !!! If you did that to me in real life, I would collapse from sheer happiness !!! Artie, EVERY live show you've ever done has been just the BEST . . . you are so sexy ! But even more than that, I have to tell you, you are one TRULY lovable man, Artie: every time I see you, I want to wrap my arms around you ! The best thing of all, though, was that today I got to spend a little time talking to you in the live chat. Artie, your English is FANTASTIC, and, your beautiful eyes just SPARKLE with intelligence. . . . It would be SO NICE to know you in real life ! Please, Artie, will you do some more live shows for us, and video clips, and -- most important -- chat with us more often ??? I would LOVE to see you in the studio more often ! Because you are that really, REALLY rare person: a boy who isn't just GORGEOUS ( which you ARE ) but who is gentle and kind as well. . . . you can't hide it, Artie; I can TELL that you're a wonderful man. . . . I can't WAIT to talk to you again, Artie ! :-) Kisses, "Verdi"
From: Roy

New 24/7 web cam site	October 12, 2002
Pirrer 24/7 Cams This site is currently undergoing final testing. Members of 19nitten and RuTwinks have unlimited FREE access - no additional sign up fees necessary! Non-members will be able to sign up SOON!
From: Roy

Testimonials	September 10, 2002
Here are some messages of a long thread on one of our message boards in our members area. All the great testimonials posted by our members made us very proud: ----------- Guys, I don't know if any of you can answer this question. I'm happy, I'll admit, but I'm also mystified. When I surf around the 'Net, to other "gay" sites, I experience all the worst traumas of my life, all over, in electronic microcosm. Gay men sniping at one another, hurting one another in an attempt to seem cool or smart or win over a few at the expense of many. ONLY 19nitten is different. I don't know why. Is it an accident ? That such a kind and special group of people have made their way here ??? Here, and only here , the discussion is what one always dreams of -- at, say, some dream dinner party. . . . Intelligent, occasionally provocative ( ! ), but always kind and friendly. What's the reason ? I just can't say. But I am happy to know all of you. Yours, "Verdi" ------------ I agree about how 19nitten is. I think the main reason it is the way it is, is because of the way Roy and Gary intermingle with us on the message boards, chat and e-mailing at times. I don't think you'll find a site owner or webmaster doing this in other sites.. Yes, we sure care about our kids and only want the best for them. Nitten and Felik's Zone are the only sites like this that I am a member. I don't need to look any further. This is a great place to park my butt. BobUSA ----------- It's hard not agree with all the comments made above. From my own personal perspective, this site is successful for several reasons: 1) the site owner - Roy - displays a great deal of compassion and concern for how this site, and how the models, are presented to the viewers, 2) the WebMaster - Gary - demonstrates, through his format and attitude, that this site is more of a community and less of just another paysite - it shows in his work, his interactive communications with members, and his interpersonal 'speekeasy' with the models, 3) this site, I feel, wouldn't be as positive as it is if strict parameters and protocols weren't in place - this makes the community of 19nitten more proactive and less destructive, 4) the lack of personal links to other members brings together a cohesiveness unlike that of other sites, particularly sites within this type of ecommerce, e.g., if you cannot e-someone, then you must come here to exchange thoughts and ideas, 5) the censorship of 'extreme' negativism's by members helps keep the flow of positive attributes strong, 6) the interaction one gets (without paying additional fees that is - like other sites do ) from chatting with the LiveCam models makes this place unique, and certainly, if not the most important concept that keeps this fairyland alive and well, is 7) the comfort and compassion zones that nearly all of the members contribute to in one way or another, i.e., through LiveCam chats, message boards, guestbooks, etc. - Just my thoughts - thanks for asking. - Allzen ---------- I will second that! I have searched the web to find better, but I never will. As long as the welfare of the models remains paramount, then we will continue to have the best site Thanks Roy, Gary etc. martin10or ---------- Nitten is truly different. This site has really changed my life. I was always a "Loner". And now, I am part of a loving, caring Family. I don't even feel this is a "Pay Site". I just feel like I am "chipping in a few bucks" every 3 months to help keep "Our House" going. Roy and Gary certainly had a vision and I am certain that they are proud of what they have created. So many improvements in just this past year. And ALL for our benifit without a fee increase. It's no wonder that 3/4's of the members sign-up again after their initial subscription. Once you find your way here, who in the hell wants to leave. None of us wants to miss anything. It does burn my ass that their are some "rouge members" who GIVE our pictures away. Finally, my only regret is the fact that there are thousands of Gay Guys out there who are surfing the net who haven't found us yet. I am sure many of you found 19nitten by accident--as I did. 19nitten was the BEST CLICK my mouse ever made.--PaulUSA
From: Roy

The Internet on probation : Anti-terrorism drive threatens Internet freedoms worldwide	September 6, 2002
Reporters Without Borders warned today that security "abuses" by the world's governments in the year since the 11 September attacks in the United States have increasingly put the Internet under the control of security services. Read more....
From: Roy

Porn versus artistic	August 2, 2002
Many porn sites try to sugar coat their business by calling it "artistic site" or "artistic pictures". I have often wondered why they do so. If they really are ashamed of producing and publishing nude pictures then I think they are in the wrong business. One of our members, Allzen, posted an interesting message on our message board, a reflection on porn versus artistic: Although I agree that 19nitten is a very creative artistic site, without exception, I must add that this site is also, without a doubt, a pornography site by almost every defining denotation around. I most certainly understand exactly where you are coming from on your point however. It all boils down to how we as individuals (each and everyone on their own terms) perceive the term pornography (aka porn). ... Unfortunately, the term 'Porn' has been given a bad rap over the past few decades, and rightfully so from the perspective of many victorian right-wing anti-any-kind-of-sexual-position-that-isn't-in-the-missionary-position-type groups. (Personal bias on my part? Perhaps more so then you can imagine). Because of social norms that have formed our ego-centrisms and cultural identities, we tend to look at the term in diverse ways. ... Although I am not a big fan of Merriam-Webster's Dictionary - because they tend to list only commonly 'popular' words (for the most part), I have cut and pasted their definition of this term for you and other members here. As you will soon see, after reading their definition of this term - as well as from other such intellectual dictionaries on the market today, this term is not used in a negative context in any way: PORNOGRAPHY -- circa 1864 - Functions as a noun (NOT a verb) Etymology: from the Greek word 'pornographos.' 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement. 2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement. 3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction, ... From the for going definitions you can see that 'pornography' is definately give a bad rap today. From a psychological-social standpoint, it is also viewed as a noun, but with a somewhat more idealistic meaning attached to it, e.g., Literature or art with a sexual theme that is designed to cause arousal and excitement. Some political adversaries had even gone so far as to try to divide up what is 'Soft-Core Porn' and what is 'Hard-Core Porn.' Some of these pundents feel that 'Soft-Core Porn' is more literary in nature [in written form], or pictures that seldom show erections, penetration, or overt sexual activities, but contain some degree of nudity. In contrast, these same pundents feel that 'Hard-Core Porn' includes 'Soft Core Porn' realisms, but also includes penetration, erections, and sexual activities. ... So in essense, you are very right by stating that this site is an artistic site - I think that it is as well, but it is also very much a pornography site. We may not like to throw the term around much, but it's not really a bad word afterall. - Allzen (All-Zen)
From: Roy

Our dreaming Prince	July 31, 2002
In our members area we have 4 busy message boards and a story board. To many of our members these boards have become almost as important as our pictures and video clips. Some of the entries are so well written that they do not deserve to be scrolled off the boards - like this declaration of love, written by our member, Verdi: ......It is only a little candle, which I am lighting because some of us find Jenya irresistible. . . . I think the words, "a bit less beauty" don't apply, at 19nitten. More and more and more beauty is lavished upon us, beauty of infinite variety. If I am catholic in nothing else, I am very much so in my appreciation of the male form, the male psyche, the male soul. . . . So I understand your enjoyment of beauty that is full of life and fun, beauty that is strong and virile and accessible -- perhaps even a little mischievous. Jenya's beauty is altogether different. Are you fond of Beethoven ? Because Jenya is not Beethoven, not the "Eroica", not the great blood-stirring choruses of the Ninth Symphony. Jenya is Maurice Ravel's "Pavane" - quiet, soft, subtle - a tiny stirring deep in the heart that, ever so slowly, ever so unexpectedly, suffuses one with melancholy and the deepest longing. Jenya is not an overpowering storm; he is the sound of rain against the windowpane on a lonely afternoon. Jenya is not a Michelangelo, straining against the bonds of stone; he is a Leonardo, receding into the canvas in ever greater mystery. Jenya is Tadzio, standing far away in the blue surf, as we sit, fatally transfixed and helpless, on the sand. Whoever this Jenya is, he is a poem. His beauty is sublime, and no words will ever do it justice. His distant, guarded smile is more tantalizing than any treasure, in flesh, or in spirit, or in gold, that anyone could ever hope to obtain. He is our dreaming prince, whom we long to awaken, but dare not. Because we adore him far too fervently. "Verdi"
From: Roy

Don't give them your credit card number!	July 18, 2002
You have probably seen them - websites which ask for your credit card number "only to verify your age". Don't be fooled! Providing them your card information does nothing to prove you are 18 since there are many legal cardholders who are under 18. Most of these sites have ulterior motives once they have obtained your credit card number. Do not reveal any personal information unless you enjoy having unauthorized charges appearing on your statements!
From: Roy

Not worth visiting - they are cheaters!	March 21, 2002
Especially in the newsgroups it happens quite often that some sites use pictures of cute models from other sites to promote their own sites. This tells me that their own pictures must be extremely bad since they have to use stolen pictures to make people click their links!
From: Roy

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